I would say that Vladimir POZNER belongs to the rare number of people who can be classified as civilized or approaching civility.
Last addition is marked only due to the fact that truly civilized man can manifest itself in full only in a civilized environment, when he is not forced to spend most his forces for the resistance against the environment that is not civilized.
But this is in ideal.
- You are at the forefront of the world of journalism, in this context questions are of appropriate scale too.
Our entire civilization (now, six years after our meeting, I would not use the word civilization, in this case - VT) is in front of you as at a palm. What impression it makes on you?
- I have a quite heavy feeling of how this world will become, and where is it seems to me was going. On the one hand, the world we will call "well-appointed", to not use any words that have political overtones, all the more moving in the direction of the mercantilism. In that world from year to year more important became money, because they provide everything, down to the freedom and independence, to a certain extent.
World that is unsettled, poor, goes toward violence, toward the desire to take away, destroy. And, unfortunately, I can not tell (by reading what was written two thousand and more years ago by the ancient Greeks, Romans and so on) that mankind has changed for the better. I don't have that feeling at all. How there were few smart, wonderful people: artists, prominent scientists, so and remains... But I have no feeling that humanity as a whole become smarter, that there is some new views about which we are, what is our responsibility, what is the true values, - I don't have this feeling.
Posner path to this understanding was not easy, how was not simple associated with it choice ...
- ... I swore that I never more will not serve any state, any power and any party. I will try to serve only my audience. And I always will tell the truth. Of course, may be that what I think true, it is not true in final form. But what I will not lie, and that I will not say half-true - that I swore myself. I swore myself that I will try to help my viewer to understand, what happens around him. This is why I work.
- From very beginning, when you start your telecast, when only we saw them, they amazed us by some way. In those programs we always felt exactly objective approach and the desire to reach an understanding, which would meet the actual state of affairs. It always was felt very strongly and impressed us.
How has formed this internal criterion, this feeling, the desire for such a course of action?
- Tough question. These things don't happen suddenly.
There were people who played very important role in my life.
Among them, Joseph Davidovich Gordon, a friend of my father. When they were young they were friends in Paris.
Gordon returned to the Soviet Union in 1936, whence he emigrated in 1925.
In 1937 he was, of course, arrested, and 17 years he passed in Stalin's camps.
We arrived to the Soviet Union three months before Stalin's death - in 1952.
In 1954, Joseph Davidovich was rehabilitated, and quite by chance he found my father.
My father and mother left to work in Germany and Joseph Davidovich and his wife, Nina Pavlovna went to live with us. For two years we lived together.
These two years have played an enormous role in shaping my outlook and attitude to world.
It was he, a man absolutely astonishing honesty, sincerity and kindness, who helped me become what I became.
- He does not broken...
- He is not something that is not broke, break him at all was impossible. He, on the contrary, even more got stronger, I think so...
Later, my wife helped me a lot, because there were moments, when I feared, when it was scary to say. I consulted with her. And she always supported me. Such hers position has helped me a lot, because it was terrible not just for myself. And what will happen to them if something to happen with me? What will happen to my wife? What will happen to my children? How would it be? And that's what she always supported me, always said, "Yes, you should, that's correct", of course it always was colossal help for me.
One of those moments - the putsch in August 1991. In those days, there were a lot phone calls from the United States from England, from France. It seemed that everything will be terminated, because KGB, army, party took over business... I considered that the putsch will win. And I understood, that if I spoke against, I had to go to America in mid-September, it will likely that I not go to America, but I will go in the opposite direction...
And I told her that I do not know what to do. On the one hand, if I will not say, I would not live with myself. But if I will say...
And she said: "You must say, you may not no say..."
I just very lucky with her, you understand.
And there have been many such moments.
Even now... After all, I am well aware, that in the presidential administration there are people who hate me, do not like what I say. Another thing that I will not imprisoned, this is understandable. Another thing is that even if they will shut down my program, I will not go hungry. But still I can not think about it.
And you know, in this sense enough to compromise even a little, then will get into mess and ... there is no end...
- Which thoughts strengthened you at this way?
- Very much.
I once met an American who worked in the corporation RAND. This is a special corporation that attracts the most brilliant people, very smart, and they are on the orders of other organizations, including governments, to develop ideas in any area. They have access to classified information.
This person studied war in Vietnam during the war, commissioned by the Pentagon. Delving into the documents, he found evidence to prove that in fact, President Johnson introduced the nation into confusion when told that the military boats of North Vietnamese attacked an American ship in the Gulf of Pontius that, in fact, has allowed America to start bombing North Vietnam. All of this was falsified.
He stole these papers and handed them to the "New York Times", where they were printed. And this was the beginning of the end of the Vietnam War and the beginning of the end of Johnson.
I asked him: "How could you dare to do it, because they could put you into prison?"
And he said: "You know, I read a book written by German Martin Nemoler." He was the youngest commander of a submarine during First World War. When the Germans were defeated, he became a pacifist, went into religion. He gradually progressed and by 1933 he became chief pastor of Hamburg that is just at the time when Hitler came to power. Since he was a pacifist, he was arrested and imprisoned in the camp. But he came out and wrote a book about all this.
And in this book, told me this American, he wrote: "When they came for the Jews, I remained silent because I am not a Jew. When they came for the communists, I remained silent because I am not a communist. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not say anything because I'm not a union member. When they came for the Catholics, I did not say anything because I'm not Catholic. And when they came for me, no one left to speak... "
He said: "This prompted me to do what I did..."
I remember that this impressed me extraordinary; we were talking then about civil disobedience.
And this story has played in my life very important role.
Such stories, such meetings were quite a few, maybe tens. And it all together and played a role.
Vladimir Pozner, not accidentally brought the heroic examples, when we talked about the factors that have shaped his views and convictions. Because in order to demonstrate civility in the environment where all the intellectual and psychological processes of man are reduced to the satisfaction of only one mercantile gyrus, it is necessary to be able to withstand this environment.
People, like Posner, have to do their deeds without any support, at their own risk, indeed with endangering for their relatives.
That is why civilized heights are today the rare peaks, which are able to achieve very few people, much less can hold out on them.
But when we met, I was still very far from such views, and even more from practical solutions and actions. It seemed to me at that time only that in society there is a layer of growth from the specialists, who determine the actual development of humanity. It was clear that this is quite problematic layer, and we were agreed with that. But Posner emphasized one very important for the present and future practical aspect, associated with this layer:
- I think that people of my character can be together, to consult and may somehow act together, but it's a very small group actually.
It took awhile to in this regard, I formed my own view.
But first I had to much to understand:
- What is civilization and how it differs from modern society?
- What are the real vector of human development and the essence of progress?
- Who are the civilized people, and how is they different from a mercantile people or barbarian?
- What determines the exceptional value of civilized people and their aspirations to civility for progress?
- What mechanisms we need to start in order that progress irreversibly led to the emergence of civilization?
And only then, when it became clear, for what and how to "act together", in a practical way were explored that this "small group" are educated, advanced people, who not damaged by the dominant financial and economic system.
Damage for human, which causes dominant financial and economic system, is a very delicate and sensitive issue.
I already had to deal with the desire of eminent people to participate in our business as wedding generals. Yes, we're open to advices. But, because we solve an unprecedented practical task, that must to create financial turnover among civilized people, as a basis for the implementation of breakthrough and just cost-effective projects, in order to run a decentralized investment process, and subsequently on the basis of their income to start of social, educational, scientific and other programs, we are talking about money.
Those who with their own small investments, distracting them from their salary or other small incomes, who are already involved in this process, themselves have projects in the field of medicine, education, social and environmental spheres, and metallurgy. And this is just the beginning.
Of course, we must be treated with understanding to the established stereotypes among civilized people, with regard to finances. Too high a price that they pay for money, and this money mean a lot for saving their civilized heights. Most of all - it is their best choice, a sort of compromise between the need to survive and in order to be civilized, in so far as possible what it is for that person. But today we are talking about a higher, more serious task for us all, which will not only create the conditions for those who could be civilized. It creates new conditions for those who already consider themselves among civilized people. Because the economic cooperation between us will make it possible implementation of effective projects, which have many professionals in our numbers. Those, in turn, will create new financial opportunities for the implementation plans for each of us.
Assuming the opportunity to participate in the creation of financial turnover of civilized people, the level of Posner, I would like to draw attention to a very sharp for such people aspect: any civilized person cares future of those ideals, concepts, principles ... which, strictly speaking, are the foundation of its civilized heights. In the mercenary world, future of all this quite uncertain, because for the mercantile world it means nothing, since has no cost. In the interaction, which we cultivate, these values take on special significance. They not only get a guaranteed life, because these values will be key for the participants, but I think that in favorable conditions, they also will be developed.
If these arguments are for civilized people of high level not enough, here is another one. In the long term, management of all civilizing processes, that will run on the basis of decentralized investment process, will be implement by civilized people from the number the world-class specialists. From a financial point of view, management by these professionals can be effective only if they will not only solve the problem of progressive tasks, but at the same time they will protect their investment. Thus we will provide a great responsibility in making any decision.
I think in relation to the problem, that we solve, we can test a human's real civilized height. Therefore, being a practical man, I completely agree with Vladimir Pozner, that a group of people, in which such interaction is possible, particularly among people who are widely known, is really small. I think it would be nice if we from the all world will get a few dozen of these people.
So today the main participants of this process are the people aspiring to civilization, but forced to live under the laws of mercantile world.
Most of them have its own wonderful projects that they do not expect to realize in the dominant financial and economic system. But here we all have hope. We understand that the unification of financial resources of hundreds of thousands of such people in the world will start the first individual projects, and then based on their income will start others.
Other people cooperate on the conviction that to live by the standards of mercantile world is impossible. For these people cooperation with us is the hope for the near term civilized life for them and their relations.
We believe that only a lack of financial turnover among civilized people, which have formed thousands of years ago between mercenary people in their environment, is an obstacle to full implementation for every civilized man and civilization in general.
Mercantile-targeted people most of all invest in real estate. The most advanced of them are smart enough to venture capital financing.
We are advanced in this matter as far as possible. We are investing in mobility - in progress, people and ideas for the civilized present each of us - today and tomorrow, and guaranteed the future of civilization - in the near future.
Vladimir TESLIN